BenP (00:02.404)
Hi folks and welcome to the Tech World Human Skills podcast. Thanks so much for tuning in. Now, today we're talking about career development for people working in cloud, which is pretty much everyone these days. And our guest today is a principal solution architect at AWS, but not only that, he's the co -founder of Become A Solution Architect and author of the book
career journey. So please welcome to the show Prasad Rao. Prasad, is lovely to have you with
Prasad (00:39.532)
Thank you Ben for having me. It's a pleasure.
BenP (00:43.918)
Well, I wonder, could we start? Could you introduce yourself to everybody and just let people know a little bit about yourself?
Prasad (00:53.646)
Sure, yeah, as you mentioned, I'm a Principal Solutions Architect at AWS. So, day job is actually helping customers migrate and modernize their workloads on AWS.
BenP (01:07.664)
Brilliant, brilliant. Well, we're gonna be talking about career development, specifically around the cloud space. And that's what we're sort of be thinking about today. I wondered if we could start off by thinking about, you know, this is a topic that's really important to you, but why is this so important to
Prasad (01:31.694)
I'll have to give a bit of a backstory for that, right? So when I graduated, it was around like 2007, I did interview for tier one companies like Microsoft, Adobe, and frankly got rejected, right? And I thought I'll continue working in tier two companies and that's where I've spent like more than a decade working. So now I work at AWS, but it did not all start like that. It was during
experience when the cloud was blooming and I thought I should be making a switch to the cloud technologies. But I was not getting the right kind of opportunities, the right kind of place where I could actually start learning cloud. And that's what I've seen a lot of people because now I run this free mentoring initiative, become a solutions architect. I see a lot of people being in a similar situation.
And that's where developing your career in cloud is actually going to help you get a lot of opportunities in the job.
BenP (02:41.158)
So basically, you graduated from university and you weren't getting the roles that you wanted to do. So you've used the terms of tier one and tier two. There was the real companies you really wanted to work for and the ones that you weren't quite so keen on and you weren't getting those ones. And so you're thinking, okay. So that's how you started out. But obviously you've got to a company which you kind of consider now as like tier one. Like I have made it.
I'm working at these top tier one companies. so you sort of created these programmes to give something back. Am I understanding that
Prasad (03:24.748)
Yeah, so when I say tier one, tier two, it's mainly about in the tech industry, we have these companies like Fang, right? Like Facebook, Netflix, Apple, Google, Amazon, and those are like kind of the companies that tech persons do aspire to work for. So when I graduated, cloud was not there as a technology, it was just coming at that time. But overall, these are the companies that people would aspire for. And when
cloud started becoming more and more prevalent in the industry and people are making switch to the cloud. I also aspire to work in one of these companies and that's where the learning journey began. And now this whole initiative of giving back was after joining AWS, lot of folks started reaching out to me and my previous colleagues that Prasad, how were you able to make that switch from the on -prem technologies to the latest cloud technologies?
And that's what I thought, know, if I'll be able to help them, it'll be great. So I started helping few of my previous colleagues over the weekend and I started sharing that knowledge on the LinkedIn too. And that's when I realized that lot of people started reaching out to me who probably I have never met or I don't know. And they also wanted to make that switch or have that career growth in the cloud. So yeah, that's how it started. And we started the program more formally. Initially, I was doing it all on my own.
running a 12 -week batch helping people upscale on cloud. Over the weekend, I used to run a of hours of live classes and then used to provide them resources to get upscale and get certified. But after running two or three batches, there were few people in AWS who reached out saying that they would also like to contribute to this mentoring program. And that's when we started this free mentoring initiative more formally and named it BESA, B -E -S -A, Become a Solutions Architect.
helping people upskill in their cloud career.
BenP (05:32.88)
Brilliant. It sounds like a really interesting program. So what does the program cover? How does the program work? How does it work? And who's it aimed at? And then how does it
Prasad (05:47.918)
Yeah, so it's mainly for people who want to excel in their cloud career and become a solutions architect. It's a 12 week free mentoring initiative and we focus on both the technical skills as well as the behavioral skills. So when it comes to technology and that's why I love your podcast because it talks about the human skills, right? In the technology world. So when it comes to any technology, whether it
cloud or when you're becoming a solutions architect. Technical skills is definitely that something you need to possess, but it all depends upon the whole behavioral skills, the consulting skills that comes along with it, which you are able to use to apply the tech to solve the actual business problems.
BenP (06:37.03)
So you go through, I guess, cloud skills 101, you know, through all of those kinds of skills. And then, you know, talking about the human skills or the behaviour skills. So what were the sort of skills then that you then focus on and helping people develop as they aspire to become a solution architect?
Prasad (06:57.166)
So it's more about kind of consulting skills that how would you interact with customers? How would you understand the customer's problem and then backward from there to design a solution for them? How would you communicate with different levels of stakeholders that if there is a specific business problem for which you are providing a solution, the way you articulate it to a C level executive, to a CEO or a CTO or a C level executives,
versus how you articulate it to a middle management versus how would you articulate it to the developers? It would be a bit different. And that's what we try and help people up skill also along with the cloud technologies. It includes like how do you deliver presentations? How would you do effective whiteboarding skills? Those kinds of skills that are actually helping you communicate the technology that you have learned to other people more effectively.
BenP (08:01.912)
Yeah, so it's a combination of knowing the tech, but then also being able to articulate that effectively to be able to influence people effectively. Because ultimately as a solution architect, you spend a lot of time working with customers, whether that be internal customers, if you're an internal solution architect, or external customers, if you're a customer, external customer facing. So those skills, absolutely essential.
Yeah, for everyone. So that is BESA. So that's the Become a Solution Architect program. And just out of interest, do these run very often? Can people sign up to them? Where do people go to get more information on
Prasad (08:44.59)
We do have a GitHub page, like it's becomeasolutionsarchitect .github .io and we do have a YouTube channel. We run a 12 week batch, so it's for three months and we do it two times or three times in a year. So like we do a 12 week batch, then like all of us are volunteering and we have day jobs, so we do take some gap in between and then we start again. So all the information is available on the webpage or...
connect with me on the LinkedIn and I keep sharing regularly on when the upcoming batch is. Like the last batch we just wrapped up early July, so we might be able to start another batch later in the year.
BenP (09:26.822)
Okay, okay, brilliant. Now, so that then starts to lead us on, I guess, to the other topic that would be really interesting to talk about, is the book. Because you've released a book this year called Cloud Career Journeys. Could you tell us a little bit about that? Because that's continuing in the same sort of vein, really, isn't it, of helping people develop their career in cloud. So could you tell us about the book?
Prasad (09:54.446)
Sure. So the whole idea about the book came as a feedback from the mentoring program that we run, BESA. Through the various batches that we have done, the common feedback that we have received is that there is lot of technical material available for people. People can go on to the me and buy a course. People can watch YouTube videos, but still individuals are quite confused about the path that they should be taking.
to navigate their cloud career and how to become successful in cloud career. So the idea was that if we are able to showcase the journeys of other people who have been successful now, like they were in the similar situation like other people are like few years back, and they were at that time trying to navigate, but now they are successful. And if we are able to showcase the journeys of those people, like what decisions they have made, what resources they have used.
what challenges they have faced, how did they overcome those challenges? It will be helpful for people who are in a situation who are thinking about how to navigate their own cloud career. So the book showcases journeys of 16 people from diverse backgrounds, and we have deliberately made them into six categories so that when anyone who picks up the book would be able to relate themselves with at least one of the story.
or one of the category based on the career stage they are at, based on the economic background they are from, based on the career that they are aspiring to become. And so they will be able to get some inspiration about how they would be able to navigate their own journey.
BenP (11:41.87)
Yeah, and I love it because those those sort of six categories you've got you've got from people that are very early in their maybe solution architect in their cloud career journey.
but right through to people that are really successful, literally like top of the cloud tree, really high performing and aspirational for probably most of us in the tech world. So could you talk to us about those different levels or those different groups of stories that you've got that are there in the book?
Prasad (12:17.358)
Sure, I'll briefly talk about the six categories, right? As I said, it starts from the people who are very early. So the category is Pathfinders. So Pathfinders are the people who are from a completely non -technical background. Like, for example, Daniel, he was a Uber driver. And during the pandemic, when the taxis and all got shut, he started learning tech. And now,
BenP (12:22.116)
Yeah.
Prasad (12:46.83)
Three years down the line, he works as a cloud engineer with one of the cloud consulting company. So those are people who did not have any cloud background, tech background or experience. Then we have a category undefeated, where people were able to actually upskill and become successful against all odds. Like if I give a quick example, Parna, she was on a career break for 12 years.
BenP (12:53.839)
Okay.
Prasad (13:15.424)
So when she started coming, after her career breaks, she's thought about coming back into workforce. She looked into the tech landscape and thought cloud is the right technology and she started upskilling. And now she works at AWS as a technical trainer. So we have stories like those in the undefeated category. The third category is progressives, which is I relate to most because it's kind of the people who are from the IT background, like I was, I'm from the tech background.
and use that tech background to upskill on cloud and excel in their whole career journey.
And then we have categories like accelerators and liberators who have not only upskilled themselves on cloud, but have helped others also upscale. So they run very successful training academies or YouTube channels that has helped other people upscale on cloud. And finally, the top, have pinnacles who are really successful in the cloud career. And we generally say that they are epics of their cloud career as of
So these are the six categories in which we have divided the whole book and we have 16 people across all these categories.
BenP (14:23.942)
Okay, yeah.
BenP (14:31.358)
so you've got stories so hopefully no matter where you are in your career whether you're very early or very seasoned there are people that you can learn from practically what the things that they did you know to continue their career journey so I wonder if we could maybe dig into maybe let's maybe choose those top three so I think you called those liberators accelerators and the pinnacles
Could you maybe give us an overview of a little bit of a story from each of those top three? I don't think we've got time to go through through everyone and everything, although I'd very much love to. Can you maybe give us a story about, yeah, so maybe you start off with the Liberator story.
Prasad (15:15.726)
Sure, so I'll start with.
Liberator story, okay, Neil Davis. Neil Davis, is currently the founder of Digital Cloud Training. Okay, and that's a training company which has helped many people train on the overall cloud technologies. Now, if we talk about his journey, it was really surprising when we talked to him. He was a college dropout, a school
At age 16, he dropped out of school. And he was studying at a very good school and everything was great, but he somehow did not like it and he dropped out of school and he thought he'll become independent. And he started doing odd jobs like working in a factory, being a cook. He has tried multiple things and then he struggled. And at that time, what happened was he
some of his friends suggested in that, don't you try some IT certifications? Anyways, he does not have a school degree or college degree. Why don't you try some IT certifications? So he did initial IT certifications to get the basic idea understanding like CompTIA, A plus, which I've seen a lot of people from a non -technical world using those certifications to start getting into the tech world.
And then once he got those certifications, he started learning relentlessly. Like he did a lot of MCSC certifications, CCNA certifications to understand all that world of technology. And he got his first job as an IT help desk. And then he moved on to started working in more mainstream IT. And when the whole cloud technologies came, he upskilled himself
Prasad (17:09.984)
again using the certifications. So he has seen this pattern himself that how we can use certifications, IT certification, the cloud certifications to up -skill himself. And then when he reached a certain stage in his career, he thought, okay, now he would be able to help start others. And that's where the whole, his story is in liberators category because they have not only helped up -skilled themselves, but they have up -skilled others. So he started this company, Digital Cloud Training.
and he has started producing course content for people to upskill themselves and get initially AWS certified. And now I think he's doing certification courses for multiple. And now he runs actually bootcamp for people who can go from literally very less tech background or no tech background to becoming the best in the cloud technologies.
BenP (18:06.596)
Yeah and it's a great example isn't it of somebody you know giving back and and just loving helping other people get better and it and it's just brilliant. So that's a Liberator story. What about the the Accelerator category? Could you tell us a story from the Accelerator category?
Prasad (18:26.2)
Sure, I'll talk about Nana Jhassia from the accelerator category. Now, currently she runs a very successful YouTube channel called Tech World with Nana. I think it has more than a million subscribers. And she helps people's upscale on technologies like DevOps, Kubernetes, the technologies that enable the overall cloud. But how her journey started, she also does not come from a tech background.
she actually did a degree in business, starting with management and then in business. But somehow she got into one of the role into getting into web programming. From there, she started learning DevOps. How would you deploy the technologies into production through the containers and stuff. That's how she started her initial journey. At some point,
she thought that, I would be able to help others by creating some YouTube videos and sharing it with everyone. And that's when it took off. Like initially, obviously it takes time when you start creating videos, but she kept creating continuously. And at some point YouTube noticed the quality. I think she did mention it in her interview, is in the book also, that YouTube started promoting her videos on its own because
the videos had such high quality of the technical depth that she was teaching others. And that's where her channel really took off and she reached a hundred K subscribers and then she got serious and she created more and more videos. Now she runs the boot camps for DevOps and DevSecOps along with running this very successful YouTube channel. And I know a lot of people who have benefited by just looking into her videos. I remember when I was getting rammed up
on the whole Kubernetes, I watched her videos. At that time, I believe her channel had around 10K subscribers when I watched her videos around four years back compared to now when she has a million subscribers.
BenP (20:40.27)
Yeah, yeah, fascinating, fascinating. And then the final category that we'll just maybe have a quick story from, shall we? The Pinnacles. Could you tell us a story about that group of folks?
Prasad (20:54.702)
Sure. I'll talk about Ryan Kurenberg. Now Ryan Kurenberg, he's founder of A Cloud Guru. Now A Cloud Guru is a platform that has helped millions of users upscale on cloud. Least expecting that he was a very successful immigrant lawyer. He was not in tech at all. So I have used his courses to upscale myself when I was giving an interview and we reached out to him.
during when we were thinking about this book that we would like to feature your story. And when we started interviewing, he said, yeah, I was an immigrant lawyer and he was helping people migrate from UK to Canada and Australia. He was running a very successful company with more than 50 people, know, the company that he was running. It was during 2008 when the financial crisis happened and the demand for people moving countries evaporated.
that he had to shut down his company. And that's when he enrolled himself in a night school to learn technology. And that's how his technology career began. His first job was again in help desk, helping people fix their blackberries and stuff, not even a proper IT job. But then I know he continued learning and he worked with companies like Rackspace where he helped.
set up the data centers and stuff. And when the cloud wave came, he upskilled himself on cloud and started a cloud guru, the world's most, I would say, platform that has helped most people upscale on cloud.
BenP (22:50.596)
Yeah, brilliant. Another great story. Really interesting to think about all these people from different backgrounds, different points of their career and capturing them all in that book. And I love a good story. know, it is really interesting to hear about them. Well, I wonder, as we've got you on the show today, and you've of course authored this book, and I know a lot of people in tech, you
think one day I think I'd like to write a book I just wonder how did how did this book come about and and what's the reality of writing a book how did you do
Prasad (23:34.676)
Sure, sure. Yeah, I never thought I'll be writing a book, frankly, you obviously there's always aspiration that it'll be good if you can write a book, but I, you know, it's never easy to actually take that step. And this book, as I say, it's not a technical book. It's a book about the people who are successful in tech. It's not a technical book. So when I had this idea and I was not sure how I would be starting.
So one of the co -founders of the Mentoring Initiative, Ashish Prajapati, he's also the co -author of the book. He has written few books before. He has self -published few books and he has also published books with publishers. So I discussed the idea with him and I thought, know, like I told him that I'm thinking about, would you like to call our bed? And he was all in, he said, great idea. We can refine the book in this manner and let's, you know, like refine the idea in this manner and let's go ahead and writing the book.
And that frankly helped me a lot probably because I was the first time writer collaborating with someone who has written couple of books before actually helped me in a way. And then we discussed about whether we should be going via publisher or a self -published route. And we did the pros and cons list and we thought we will go the self -publishing route and we went ahead and did the self -publishing route. But what I underestimated was the amount of effort it requires in writing a book.
For both of us, took us almost a year from that ideation to the published. Yeah, it was a long process.
BenP (25:02.127)
You
BenP (25:12.23)
And so any tips that you'd have for anybody that's thinking about writing a book or any gotchas, know, anything to share with any future budding authors.
Prasad (25:23.692)
Yeah, sure. So see, it's a great experience. It's a really good learning experiences. It's more like we once you get into it, though it is hard, but you would continue it and announcing it to few people about the timelines that you're looking to achieve always helps in for yourself also to start meeting the timelines because we all have our own day jobs, our personal lives book sometimes becomes a sideline.
But for me, me and my co -author, we had some timelines in mind and we kept each other accountable to meet those timelines, though slip -ups happen. One thing that I would advise everyone that obviously you do your own pros and cons list of going via publisher or self -publishing, but if you are going self -publishing, then there is a lot of other heavy lifting that you would not have thought of that you need to do.
Like for example, hiring your own editor, hiring your own graphic designer, all those kinds of stuff. So which we had to do. So the tip would be that if you're going self -publishing, hire them sooner than later. It'll take time to find the right person who will be able to understand the vision of your book so that they will be able to come on board. It's really important that the editor and the graphic designers of the book understand what you want to share.
For us, we started writing and we thought, okay, we'll be able to hire them. And we did hire them probably after writing 75 % of the book. And then we realized that, okay, the editor comes up with really good points about how you should be editing it. Okay, now we'll go back and revisit our chapters and stories. So hire them earlier than later, it'll help you back and forth editing.
BenP (27:16.27)
Brilliant, brilliant. Well, Preston, I have just glanced at the clock and the time train has run away with us. So probably about time to finish. So I wonder if we could sort of just wrap up. What would be your key takeaways for anybody listening to the podcast?
Prasad (27:36.398)
So if you're looking to excel in your cloud career, in the book, like we have shared the stories and the learnings from each of these people. And one of the common trait that has come up is learn by doing, learn by sharing, learn by teaching. What it means is that when you are learning, you would be obviously reading some books, watching videos, but do the hands -on labs. That's the sure shot way for you to get the skills.
the do part gets you the skills and then share them because it is going to help you get the visibility that you need and get you the right kind of credibility for the content that you are learning and sharing. And once you reach a particular stage, share in terms of teaching others. And when you teach others, you're not only helping others, but you're also
solidifying your own skills. So anyone who is looking to excel in the cloud career, learn by doing, learn by sharing, learn by teaching. That would the top tip that has come across multiple stories that are there in the
BenP (28:54.08)
Love it. That is brilliant. Thank you for sharing that. Now that is lovely and wraps things together really nicely. I think for me, what sort of stuck out to me as we've gone through this is first, know, right back when we talking about your Become a Solution Architect program, the important of the tech and the important of all of those other skills as well. And you need both of them together. So I think that's really, you know, reinforces something I certainly have seen true in my life in tech.
Also, I just love hearing stories about people. You know, you can know the theory, you can know the principles, but when you see other people that have trodden a path, that's just really inspirational and you can just learn so much from people. So I've really loved that. And then I always find it interesting digging behind the scenes of people, know, that creating books, creating YouTube channels, creating programs. So it's lovely to hear your tips on the realities of hiring an editor, getting it in early.
is brilliant. if people have loved the things that you've been saying, where can people get in touch and find out more about the stuff you've been talking
Prasad (30:05.528)
So there's a website, www .cloudcareerjourneys .com. You'll be able to find everything about the book there. And I am on LinkedIn, just search for Prasad Rao. You'll be able to find me. And yeah, I am pretty active on LinkedIn and I try and respond to every person who messages me. So yeah, let's get in touch.
BenP (30:27.59)
Brilliant. And I'll put links to those in the show notes for anybody that wants to, struggles to find those and wants to get in and click, just click a link, they'll be in the show notes as well. So I guess that's it. Prasad, thank you so much for coming and talking to us. I found it really interesting. So thank you so much for coming on the show.
Prasad (30:49.358)
Thank you so much. It has been real pressure.
