Ben Pearce (00:01.496)
Hi everyone and welcome to the Tech World Human Skills podcast. Now, first things first, on March the 11th and 12th, this very year, I'm gonna be at Tech Show London and I'll be hosting the cloud and AI infrastructure keynote stage on day one and then I'm delivering a session on the same stage on day two and tickets are free. So come and say hello, I would love to see you there. Now.
to today's episode. It has been a tough job market over the last few years. Lots of people have been affected by layoffs and others wanna find their next ideal job. So I wanted to have a conversation about how best to apply for roles in tech in 2025. So to help us with the conversation, our guest today has loads of experience in recruitment.
and is director at tech recruitment agency, Mexa Solutions. So please welcome to the podcast, Bod Bath.
Bob Bath (01:10.073)
Hey, Ben. Yeah, nice to be here. Thanks for having me. Looking forward to this.
Ben Pearce (01:13.498)
It is an absolute pleasure to have you. Thank you so much to agreeing to come on the show and share your pearls of wisdom with us. So I'm really excited to get in the conversation today. So for those people that don't know you, could you just introduce yourself and tell us a bit about your background?
Bob Bath (01:33.283)
Yeah, sure. So yeah, I'm Bob. I help solve hiring problems for technical managers. So that's mostly through traditional recruitment services, so permanent and contract hiring. But I also provide so much knowledge and insight around the market, recruitment guidance, best practices, offering recruitment health checks for companies as well to help them design recruitment campaigns that quickly and effectively hire great people.
I've been in tech recruitment for 19 years and almost 10 of those years are now at MEXA, my own tech recruitment agency.
Ben Pearce (02:13.102)
Yeah, well, I mean, really interesting background and such a history, 19 years you said just said then that you've been in recruitment. And it's interesting because two years ago, probably getting on for two years ago now, I did a podcast episode, one of my early podcast episodes on recruitment and how to get a job. I wanted to. Yeah. Thank you for listening. And I wanted to do this again because so much.
Bob Bath (02:33.071)
Hmm, I heard that one.
Ben Pearce (02:41.646)
which it feels like has changed in the last two years. And it felt like a new conversation would be really useful for people. And so I wonder if we can start off by framing this a little bit about over the last few years, what has happened to the tech job market over the last few years.
Bob Bath (03:03.681)
Yep. Okay. So we've had COVID and then since COVID there was a post COVID boom around 2022. And it's at that time that companies were essentially just falling over themselves, falling over each other, trying to hire people. There was more jobs on the market than there were people. it was a time when salaries were going through the roof as well. So
the demand was there and they had to do all they can to attract people. Salaries kept going up. And we saw this mostly in the software development market. They saw the biggest increase in staffing salaries. After that in 2023, things took a bit of a nosedive. Everyone thought a recession was coming. Interest rates were going through the roof. Cost of living was going up. And there was this big fear of uncertainty and a lack of confidence.
Ben Pearce (03:43.022)
Okay.
Bob Bath (04:00.175)
in the market and companies were starting to go, should we be hiring at this stage or should we just batten down the hatches and look after our staff, look after our customers? Especially at a time when the big tech companies were starting to lay off people as well. And it was about that time that companies started to do the return to office working as well. But since then, back into 23 and all the 24, it's the recovery phase. So,
Ben Pearce (04:14.839)
Yeah.
Bob Bath (04:28.033)
things have been slowly getting better since then, lots of really good signs and in fact the last three months have been really promising, it's really picked up.
Ben Pearce (04:34.752)
Okay. Okay. And so if we look at it like right now, so what's the market feel like this week, you know, this month, what's it feel like?
Bob Bath (04:46.967)
Yeah, there's a lot of predictions for the coming weeks and coming months that are really positive. A lot of people looking at the market going, right, the trends, everything's pointing to the right thing here and trends are things are going to keep getting good. It's not going to go back to the 2022 levels, unfortunately. And that was just a big post-COVID boom. But we've seen a big increase in the contract market, which is very common after things have been a bit of a lull. Companies look for contractors to
Ben Pearce (05:04.204)
Yeah.
Bob Bath (05:16.943)
for quick wins to get up and running on projects. yeah, the perma hiring has taken a big uptick as well. So yeah, really good. And I think for us, we recruit a lot into the consultancy markets and service provider markets. And that's a really good barometer of what the market's doing. Because if they're busy, means their end users are signing off and picking up projects and starting to buy as well. So it's a good sign.
Ben Pearce (05:42.092)
Yeah, so it feels to you like we've been through the post-boom dark time and it feels a little bit like there's some light, we're in spring, know? The days are starting to get a little bit lighter and it feels like there's a summer's coming. it's gonna, maybe it's not gonna be a heat wave like we were in 2022 or whatever, but it feels like summer's sort of coming.
Bob Bath (06:07.097)
Great analogy, yeah, definitely. The trouble is though that there's so many individuals looking for work at the moment and that's what's making it really difficult. So yeah, number of roles are increasing, definitely, but there's still a high number of individuals on the market that are looking.
Ben Pearce (06:17.238)
Okay.
Ben Pearce (06:21.472)
Okay, right. And so that means it's a tough, I don't know the right term here, it's a tough suppliers market. Is that right? Is there a term you use? It's a tough market for people applying for roles.
Bob Bath (06:31.64)
Yeah.
Bob Bath (06:35.535)
Yeah, it is. And people are looking for all sorts of hints and tips. So everything we'll be talking about today, hopefully it'll be some really good value for people to take away and say, right, maybe I'll change this or start doing this to help them land the next role.
Ben Pearce (06:46.006)
Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Right. Well, let's start to dig into that then and start to get into that and
I do want to talk about AI in a bit because I think that's going to affect it. I think I want to come back to that in a little minute if that's okay. What I think I'd love to just start with is how do you go about applying then? So let's say you've been laid off or made redundant or let's just say the company you're at, you're thinking I am done here. I need to start looking elsewhere to do something that I want to do. How do you go about applying successfully so that you're making it to the interview stage?
for jobs at the moment.
Bob Bath (07:28.783)
Well, if you're in the latter of those situations and you're still in a job looking, then that's great because you've got time on your side. If you're being made redundant, then you'd probably be less selective. would be full seam ahead applying for everything and probably jumping at one of the first opportunities that comes along. Whereas you could be very selective if you're still in a role. But the first thing you need to do is get your CV in order because essentially your CV is your shop window and it needs to be appealing enough to
Ben Pearce (07:45.666)
Yeah.
Ben Pearce (07:55.416)
Okay.
Bob Bath (07:58.607)
When people put job adverts out these days, they're getting dozens or hundreds of job applications coming back through. So you want to make sure your shop window is good enough to want them to open a door and come on into your shop and read a little bit more about who you are, essentially. So that's the first thing you need to get in order.
Ben Pearce (08:19.502)
So first thing is that that's the CV, right, okay. So how do you do that? What would be a few top tips on writing that CV to make sure that it's one of the ones that gets selected?
Bob Bath (08:35.789)
Well, first one is that it's always an ongoing debate is what length should my CV be? How long should it be? And I'm a big believer of less is more and aiming around three pages, two to three pages. Because anything much longer than that, maybe four pages is okay. If you've got so much experience on there, as long as it's good info going into your CV is okay. But much more than that, probably not gonna, you're gonna turn people off and probably not gonna read all of it. And they're gonna skim it rather than read it.
Ben Pearce (08:41.783)
Okay.
Okay?
Ben Pearce (09:03.938)
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Bob Bath (09:05.058)
You don't really want that. But what you want to be doing is making sure that your CV is written in a way that's really going to attract people. what you need to do is make sure it's littered with successes, achievements, make it facts and figures related, because that really shows what your return of investment is to someone who's hiring you. So for example, if you're a business analyst and you started saying, how are you?
facilitate meetings with stakeholders to elicit requirements. Well, great. Everyone knows what BA does. You don't really need to write that. You need to be talking about what the outcomes are and what your successes are and get people to buy into that. They want to know what they're going to get when they hire you.
Ben Pearce (09:51.34)
Yeah. And so I'm putting my hat on for many years. I was a hiring manager and recruited people in architect roles, application developer consultant roles, field engineering roles, manager roles. So for many years, I did that type of stuff. And to go to your first point about the length of CVs, I used to hate the long ones. know, when I've got seven pages, it's like they started their CV.
in 2003 and have updated it by adding a job on every three years or whatever. And now they've got like, I used to hate it because I just felt particularly for customer facing roles, I need you to be able to influence and talk to customers really effectively. And if your CV looks like an encyclopedia, what are you going to be like when I get you in front of customers and that kind of stuff? So I was always a big fan of the shorter, you know, more punchy, punchy one.
Bob Bath (10:31.491)
Mm.
Ben Pearce (10:43.008)
And then to your point about the outcomes base, who wants, and we'll get to the next bit, but who wants a list of activities?
Bob Bath (10:43.865)
Yeah.
Ben Pearce (10:50.55)
Nobody, I wanted a list of, I did this, which meant this impact to the business. And then I did this, which meant this. And I did this and the outcome was that. And if I had a CV that was like that versus a list of activities, the one with the outcome was just gonna get, you know, that straight to the top. going, this is a serious contender now. We've got somebody who knows what they're talking about. They've got a really concise CV with some really great outcomes here. I'm not going, right, they're in.
Bob Bath (10:52.655)
Hmm.
Ben Pearce (11:16.97)
they're in pole position. So I completely agree with the things that you said there.
Bob Bath (11:21.507)
Yeah. And those roles that you were talking about, consultant and architect positions, they're usually people who write documentation as well. So you're looking at someone's CV and if it doesn't look great, you think, wow, are they going to buy my documentation for my customers in such a way? Now don't get me wrong. It's not easy. mean, CV writing, tech people are really good at tech and they're fantastic at doing whatever they do, but they might be rubbish at writing a document, a CV that sells themselves.
Ben Pearce (11:29.08)
Yeah.
Bob Bath (11:50.9)
So it's just learning how you can tweak your CV to make it look really appealing.
Ben Pearce (11:58.478)
So let's start to extend that a little bit and start to bring AI into the conversation a little bit because I've seen CVs where literally like you've maybe got a side panel on the CV and it's now literally like in font eight.
you or some tiny little thing, there is now just every technology that they have ever touched is like in this side panel down the side. So even if like the main bit has got all of your, you know, your outcomes and that kind of stuff, then down the side, you've then got Azure, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, AWS, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, know, so whatever it is, but it's just a list of technologies. Littered with buzzwords.
Bob Bath (12:24.655)
Hmm.
Bob Bath (12:39.683)
Hmm, littered with buzzwords.
Ben Pearce (12:45.454)
Is that useful? Is that helpful? Why are people doing it and does it help?
Bob Bath (12:52.719)
People are doing it because they know that some systems or some portals might pick up their CV and place them higher, maybe if they mentioned more things. Should people do it? Yes. But there's a line. Don't do too much of it. You definitely need it on there because you need to know when you're reading a CV, what tech environments this person worked in. But the more you litter it, do you start to think, is this person a jack of all trades because they've just mentioned everything they can?
Ben Pearce (13:14.636)
Yeah.
Bob Bath (13:22.307)
or everything they've ever possibly worked with. I mean, don't get me wrong, if you're applying for a job that's outside of your core area, perhaps it's a specific technology, but you've got that, it's not on your CV, yeah, put it in there, absolutely, but just don't overdo the passwords because I think it's bit overkill.
Ben Pearce (13:22.669)
Yeah.
Ben Pearce (13:40.696)
So maybe tailored. So it does help with the keyword search. Some recruiters may well be using either just pattern matching or AI, whatever it is to look for those keywords. So a tailored but comprehensive list is quite a useful way to help make your CV kind of pop up a little bit.
Bob Bath (14:01.903)
Yeah, absolutely.
Ben Pearce (14:04.214)
Right, and so while we're on that kind of AI topic a little bit, what about getting ChatGPT, whoever it might be, to write your CV for you? Are you seeing people doing that? Is it working? What are your thoughts on that?
Bob Bath (14:20.391)
I think you should be doing it. You should, if you're not comfortable with writing a CV or you've not done it in 10 years, lean on AI. AI is a fantastic tool and people should be using it as much as possible, to give you a base, foundation. And I think that's the key here. get it to a level and then build upon it yourself. If you're just tailoring, getting it to spit out a CV and then use that, it's not going to be a very good CV.
So yes, use it to help you if you need to and then build upon that.
Ben Pearce (14:56.534)
Yeah, and I guess there's a few ways you can sort of get it to help you with a structure, that kind of stuff. Maybe that might be like, and then maybe taking those sentences that you've got, because the thing is, it's not gonna know what did you do and what the outcome was. You know, that's gonna be something that you need to pop in there, and then maybe using it to help punch up those sentences, popping those sentences in and getting that punched up a little bit and sort of.
polished. maybe the first, so maybe there's a bit like using it to get the initial structure and flow, then you're coming in now with your detail that only you could possibly know. And then seeing if you can get it to polish it a little bit for you. And then giving it sort of the final once over to make sure that it's human readable and not just sometimes I see things like that, like titles or articles, you can tell the words just don't quite, just not quite right. It's sort of, yeah.
Bob Bath (15:30.799)
Mm-hmm.
Bob Bath (15:46.735)
Mm.
And one thing I've seen before, don't take shortcuts. I've seen people copy and paste their job description of their current role onto their CV. And it reads like a job description. You've got to spend time making this look good. It's your shop window, like I said before.
Ben Pearce (15:58.926)
Okay.
Okay.
Yeah.
Ben Pearce (16:08.086)
And so to that point, are you a fan and, not necessarily, but what's best? A tailored CV for each role or a generic CV that just gets sent out to all the jobs?
Bob Bath (16:24.971)
I think that you should be tailoring your CV to every application that you make. So you're going to have one main CV, that's going to be your core CV or core skill sets. But then every time you apply for a job, you want to tweak it in some way to bring certain aspects to life, really flesh out certain areas. Now, don't get me wrong, that's really hard to do because if you're looking for work, you could be applying to 10 jobs a day or whatever it might be.
to tweak your CV every time is difficult, but if you've maybe got a main CV or a couple of CVs that are slightly variations of your main CV, just bringing it to life slightly, it's gonna add so much value over not doing that.
Ben Pearce (17:09.536)
Yeah, and that's the challenge, isn't it? Because when it is not an appliance market, then lots of applications are coming in for every single role. And so therefore your competition.
Now, they might be doing this, the tailoring, the great CV, it. And if you're just doing the generic, you're just going to be at the bottom of that pile every time. So you might have applied for 100 rolls, but you're bottom of the pile in 100 rolls because everybody else is tailoring that CV to make it just right.
Bob Bath (17:39.843)
Yeah.
Bob Bath (17:45.813)
It's a tough market. You've got to give yourself every chance. Yeah, so little things like this will help.
Ben Pearce (17:52.256)
Yeah. What other tips have you got to help people applying for roles?
Bob Bath (17:58.339)
so I think that you should follow up every job application. Now I say that actually, it's quite difficult for me to say that because if I apply, if I put a job advert out, and I get a hundred TVs back and then a hundred people phone me, I'm not going to have time to do my day job. I'm simply not. But if it's, if it's done correctly, it can be really powerful.
Ben Pearce (18:24.534)
Okay.
Bob Bath (18:25.557)
And if you think, if you genuinely believe that you're absolutely spot on for the role, pick up the phone, phone the recruiter, say, just to let you know, I've sent my CV to you a couple of minutes ago. I've got, I think I'm grateful for this because, and then add one sentence in or two sentences in relating to the job. You know, I've delivered loads of M365 migrations before to X number of users. I think that could be great. Now,
that could just be enough to get the recruiter's attention, then go, that does sound interesting actually. What's your name? I'll look for your CV now. And it could just make that difference, but just be mindful that every recruit is different. And I'd fully expect some recruiter out there to say, sorry, I'm not taking calls. I need to look at the CVs, but you just got to try and maximize your chances.
Ben Pearce (19:19.426)
So maximise, so those little bits of, so those little things you could do. So you've got your basic CV that's gone in via whatever the application process is that you've gone in, you've submitted that application. So you've got follow up directly maybe with the recruiter. What about things like cover letter? Like what are your thoughts on cover letters?
Bob Bath (19:46.767)
I don't like cover letters personally. I think some recruiters might. I think perhaps it's more of an internal recruiter sort of thing, perhaps. Perhaps they like to look at it and go, right, you've taken the time to apply. Let's really sit down and understand why you want to work for our brand. But for me, I'm looking at a CV and I think all the information should be on the CV these days. Or if you're sending it over in an email, one line email.
I think I'm great for this because I've delivered these projects before or whatever it might be. A CV is just an extra document to look at that might be another page or two pages. And yeah, if 100 people are doing it, that's extra 100 documents to look at.
Ben Pearce (20:16.056)
Yeah.
Ben Pearce (20:20.632)
Yeah.
Ben Pearce (20:25.486)
Yeah, yeah, I must admit I wasn't a fan of cover letters. Like you said, I've already got two, hopefully for me, a two page CV. I don't want a seven page CV. If you've got a seven page CV and a cover letter, you're gone.
Bob Bath (20:34.383)
Mm.
Bob Bath (20:38.455)
Yeah, or you just don't get red. You won't even open it.
Ben Pearce (20:40.942)
Yeah, yeah. What about other things? So, like, as we move into this world of media a little bit more, what about things like loom videos introducing yourself or here's a list of all of the...
events that I've spoken at on this topic, you know, all of these other things, you know, this is me panel speaking at Tech Show London, for example, you know, on the on this very topic. Would you would you just bury those in the CV? And I say bury, that's really a leading. Would you just pop those in the CV? But, know, they are just a bullet point in the CV. Or is there anything else that you do that sort of pulls that out and and can be really impactful?
Bob Bath (21:08.751)
Mm.
Bob Bath (21:27.151)
I think if someone's shortlisting for a job and they're down to the last 10, they'll probably glance at your social media and look at your LinkedIn page. And I think I'm a huge believer that you should be building your brand on LinkedIn and get known. know, start putting some very valuable, insightful posts out there about, you know, what you do, talk about problems.
Ben Pearce (21:35.842)
Yeah.
Bob Bath (21:52.379)
and solutions to problems. it's all things that you've done before, all things that you've problems that you've encountered in your previous roles. You can just talk about and relate to people. So that when someone's looking at your profile, they'll go, wow, this guy's talking about all the different challenges that came up in the last 365 migration. That's great. Yeah, he obviously looks really, or she looks really, really knowledgeable.
Ben Pearce (22:17.528)
Yeah.
Bob Bath (22:18.517)
It just goes a long way. And also you can use your LinkedIn as a platform for recommendations and referrals and building out your network. So I'll tell you what that's really important is because if you think you've got a job that's attracting hundreds and hundreds of people versus your colleague turning around and say, you want to check out Ben because he's he's I've worked with him his last job. He'd done a fantastic job delivering that project. Check him out. And all of a sudden that sounds amazing.
You're like, well, actually, maybe I'll check him out before looking at all these CVs. So it's really powerful building up your brand.
Ben Pearce (22:51.788)
Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah, no, I would, I would completely agree with that. And do you know what? I was chatting with some tech leaders this week and one of the conversations that we were having was about succession planning. And, you know, we were talking about how great managers, great leaders are succession planning and thinking about who do I want next? You know, if somebody was to leave my team, who's going to come in? And not only.
And I used to try and do that as much as I could. And not only does that mean that you don't panic when the resignation comes in, which lot of leaders might be doing, panicking going, what am going to do? Because you're suddenly going, brilliant. Now, this is the time that I can get so and so in. So not only does it that, but also it helps you get people that were maybe a bit different, know, a bit of diversity in there, because you can start to think, actually, I've built relationship with some of these people and now I'm not getting the same old same old. And sometimes via the CV application process.
you get the same sorts of people applying all the time. You could start to think about getting some other people that bring some different skills or a different background that might not normally apply. So that kind of succession planning from leaders dovetails in really nicely to your point that if you're building a brand and trying to reach out to potential hiring managers in the future, then that puts you in pole position when the timing is right and roles do come up.
Bob Bath (24:16.504)
Yeah. And isn't it such a wonderful thing to say that you've been able to promote from within? know, all your staff are going to be thinking, great, there's career progressions opportunity here. We've seen it. We've witnessed it. And it's sometimes easier to then backfill a more junior position than it is senior hire.
Ben Pearce (24:34.604)
Yeah, okay. Any other tips anything else that sort of pops out to you?
Bob Bath (24:40.399)
Yes, be quick to apply. So you need to have all of your job alerts set up on all the job boards and LinkedIn or whatever it might be. Because as soon as the job comes out, you want to be one of the first few to apply. For two reasons. One, if there's hundreds of CVs, will you get through the entire list? If you've applied after a week, will they still be short listing? But also, I had an example this week where a client around me said, I need
Ben Pearce (25:05.582)
Okay.
Bob Bath (25:09.303)
some CVs for a contract role within four to six working hours because their customer, their end client had very tight time scales. And I was thinking, yeah, no problem. was like, but that's obviously going to be a disadvantage to some people who applying in two days time because they just won't get considered. know, the interviews will be on the go. So yeah, get in there early, definitely.
Ben Pearce (25:18.19)
What was this?
Ben Pearce (25:32.27)
getting there early. Right. And where are the places? So you started talking there about setting up different alerts. Where at the moment in 2025, if you're looking for a where's the place to look? Where are the jobs going? And where's the best place to set up those alerts?
Bob Bath (25:55.075)
Yeah, I guess it depends how hard you're looking, know, how, how, how much in earnest you're looking for a new job, because if it'd be made redundant, you'd want to go everywhere, which could be all across the, the, the job boards. You can upload your, your, your CV to the databases. So recruiters.
Ben Pearce (26:08.686)
Okay. And what are the big boards at the moment? What are the ones that are most common at the moment?
Bob Bath (26:15.791)
Um, so it does vary slightly across the tech market depending on skill sets and permanent contracts. So job serve is very good for contracts. Um, and then you've got total jobs or job sites. I think they've, they've, they've merged now. Um, you've got read indeed. CV library. Um, so there's some good places to start. Um, but you also want to get yourself on LinkedIn as well, because all the companies are hiring on LinkedIn. Um,
Ben Pearce (26:23.895)
Okay.
Ben Pearce (26:33.966)
Okay. Okay.
Ben Pearce (26:45.23)
Okay.
Bob Bath (26:45.807)
And if you're not actively looking, you can set your open to work status on LinkedIn as well, which can either be public or private. And if it's public, you'll come up with a big green banner saying, I'm looking for work, which tells everyone or which your manager might say. So you might want to go private. And if you go private, those who have a premium recruiter account are able to see who's open to opportunities.
Ben Pearce (26:59.276)
Yeah, which your manager might see.
Yeah.
Bob Bath (27:15.125)
accept employees at your current company. So your manager won't ever see that you're privately marked as open to opportunities.
Ben Pearce (27:23.374)
Okay, and what's the most effective way to apply it? So I'm guessing like a job would come up and it would go, boom, it's on LinkedIn, boom, it's on JobServe, boom, it's on Total Jobs or whatever it was that you said. Does it make any difference where you apply? Which platform that you apply? Is LinkedIn better than JobServe or JobServe better than LinkedIn? Where's the best place to apply then?
Bob Bath (27:49.123)
Well, you want to have job alerts out for all of them because not all jobs will go on to all the platforms. And then I would just apply for that platform. They make it through.
Ben Pearce (27:54.286)
Okay.
Ben Pearce (27:59.502)
Okay, and if it come, right, okay, so there's no preference. If you see it on LinkedIn, do it on LinkedIn. If you see it on JobServe, do it on JobServe. It doesn't make any difference. You don't prioritize any others or anything like that.
Bob Bath (28:07.705)
Yeah.
No, not from a prior, as they come in, they get reviewed. But yeah, some of the, for example, jobs on JobServe probably won't go on to LinkedIn and vice versa.
Ben Pearce (28:21.314)
really, so they compete, they? So it's either LinkedIn or JobServe, it tends not to be both.
Bob Bath (28:27.087)
Yeah, we can put them on both, you're paying for extra advertising costs if you put them on multiple platforms. LinkedIn is a bit of a funny one though. I've seen it as used as a bit of an aggregator sometimes. So what that means is if they're ever getting low on jobs on their platform, they'll look at other platforms and scrape it and put it up there to make it look like they've got loads of jobs, probably because they want to target more companies and say, look at all these wonderful jobs that we have here that your competitors are.
advertising. But yeah, companies can choose to put it on one or multiple different platforms.
Ben Pearce (28:57.656)
Yeah.
Ben Pearce (29:03.278)
Okay. Brilliant. Any other tips we've raced through the episode? Any other tips that kind of spring to mind?
Bob Bath (29:14.568)
So why don't we talk about some mistakes? What not to do? So we've talked about cover letters. I don't think they're particularly good. We've talked about some of the do's and don'ts on CVs. Keep it to three pages. I also like it to be nice and clean on the CV as well. So not big blocks of text that just look like a novel that you're reading. Summarize it nicely. Use bullet points where you can as well.
Ben Pearce (29:20.406)
Okay. Yes! Let's do that!
Ben Pearce (29:30.947)
Yep.
Bob Bath (29:47.245)
I think also if you're building a brand on LinkedIn, I think it's important to stay away from negativity as well. commenting on other people's posts, you know, opinions are fine. Everyone's going to have different opinions, but it's how you, you come across and add those opinions. If you're constantly known for just having loads of negativity on people's posts, you'll get seen and recognized and remembered for that as well. And it won't look great for your brand.
Ben Pearce (30:15.714)
Yeah, yeah, and do you know what I do? I sometimes look on LinkedIn, that's the platform I tend to use the most. And I look on that sometimes and I go, are you really making those sorts of comments with your professional persona? You know, not as.
little Bobby 99 that is anonymous but do you know what mean as and I didn't mean to choose Bob there just Bobby did I don't know if that's your real you know one of your handles but do you know what mean like what's something that's anonymous versus something and I do look at that because I think you're right there's and I have to think of it from a leader perspective about are people adding positive energy trying to solve problems
Bob Bath (30:39.183)
Mm.
Bob Bath (30:47.524)
Yeah.
Ben Pearce (31:00.044)
You know, if we come up with an issue, are these going to be the people that help me solve it, that help me take it forward? Or are they going to people flagging the issues, filling it with negativity, no solutions, just negativity and drilling holes, which is then like the energy is escaping from the team. And if I'm looking at somebody's social media feed and I go, hold on, they are clearly firing rockets, firing bombs. There's not any positive solutions here. It's just about.
Bob Bath (31:15.075)
Mm.
Ben Pearce (31:29.486)
I would be scared a mile away if that's what I saw personally.
Bob Bath (31:32.675)
Yeah, you're right. It gives you such an insight into who that person is, how they communicate, you know, what they'd be like in my team. So yeah, you're absolutely right.
Ben Pearce (31:42.862)
Yeah. Yeah. Any other big mistakes that you see people tend to make?
Bob Bath (31:50.703)
Well, we talked about CV writing and we said, make sure it's success led and achievement led so you can see someone's return of investment. Now, I think when you come to write a CV, you probably sometimes get writer's block and go, what did I do? What was I working on a year ago? So I actually think it's a really good idea to keep a work journal, a work diary of all the things that you're doing, jotted down. All the different projects you've done.
Ben Pearce (32:07.372)
Yeah. Yeah, yeah.
Bob Bath (32:19.759)
size of the projects, what new processes you've implemented and that resulted in X number of savings per year. It's really good info to add to your CV or you can actually use that information if you're going for a performance review asking for a salary increase you've got all that firepower at the hand to go right look at all the good things I've done.
Ben Pearce (32:41.718)
Yeah, no, that's a great idea. And also like you can start to couple that with the online version, can't you? So I remember we sometimes get some applicants and they go, I'm contributing to open source here. Go and check out all of this stuff on GitHub. Here's a load of things. Check out my blog where I've got here. So I kind of, so some people almost do that kind of work journal, but in a public forum. And that's also really good as well because that's just a great way to just.
Bob Bath (32:55.662)
Hmm.
Ben Pearce (33:07.628)
to your point, build your reputation, show people the type of person that you are. So again, when you start to apply for the jobs, they can just have a quick look and there's a lot more information to hand.
Bob Bath (33:19.47)
Yep, absolutely.
Ben Pearce (33:20.846)
Yeah, love it. Well, do you know what? We are running out of time, So maybe if we just loop around key takeaways, what would be the key takeaway? So for anybody that's looking for a job in 2025, wants to get hired, what would be those key takeaways?
Bob Bath (33:39.171)
Yeah. I think building your brand is so, so valuable, whether it's looking for a job now or at some point in the future, even if you're employed, you can continue pumping out really good content to your network so that you're known so that when you come to market, you're, you're recognized and remembered. If you're looking for work now, get your CV in shape, get it in a really good place. And then, yeah, set up your job alert, start applying, follow up where you can.
Yeah, I think that's some of the key takeaways from today. keep your chin up as well because, sorry, I was gonna say, keep your chin up as well because it's hard, it is a tough market. You'll probably feel like you're banging your head against a brick wall every day when you're applying and not hearing back or getting pipped to the post or jobs get pulled. It's tough, it's really tough. So yeah, keep your chin up.
Ben Pearce (34:12.28)
Yeah, and I like...
Yeah.
Ben Pearce (34:24.024)
Yeah.
Ben Pearce (34:30.798)
Yeah, it is. And I think that is a great point, actually, that that keep it, you know, I was chatting to a chap just this week and it's almost like you've gone into entry level sales where you're a sales development representative, where you are constantly looking for opportunities, trying to find that opportunity.
qualify it, like is this the right type of job, the right type of company, what's their glass door rating, you know, like I'm trying to qualify it, but then I'll go, I've got to pay the mortgage, so I'll not write, so I'm doing both of these, so then you're going, right, fire, fire, fire, so now you've got 30 CVs that are out of there, of which how many do the recruiters get back in touch with you, then where are you in the process, so it's almost like you've then got, and if you've been doing this for three, four, five months,
Bob Bath (34:57.007)
Mmm.
Ben Pearce (35:20.738)
That is really hard and really draining. And a number of people that I've spoken to have said that that's a real challenge. Just how to manage it. know, like if you've got a is it an Excel sheet or whatever sheet or whatever setup so that you can track each opportunity, know where you are. And that can be pretty demoralizing, I think.
Bob Bath (35:29.999)
Mm.
Bob Bath (35:43.235)
Yeah, it's a full time job. can be a full time job looking for a full time job.
Ben Pearce (35:47.596)
Yeah, yeah. So I think that's a great way to end. Yeah, keep your chin up if you're looking. We're in spring, summer's coming, but it is still a tough market. There's lots of applicants. So just do those little things. Keep your LinkedIn, keep your brand, get those tailored TVs, apply early, get the alerts set up, and then keep your chin up. And then all being well, the job is yours.
Bob Bath (36:12.451)
Yeah, and bonus tip, get yourself to some community events as well, networking events, meetups. There's tech summits that happen as well. A of them are free to attend. You can meet good people, learn good things along the way.
Ben Pearce (36:21.4)
Yeah. Yeah.
I would completely agree and speaking at those as well. Because you never know there's a hiring manager or somebody that's not even a hiring manager, but that can refer you into their company and staff referrals. So if you've got to met a load of people, referrals coming in as well. Yeah, that's another great bonus tip. If people want to get in touch with you, anything you'd like to share about how people can get hold of you at all?
Bob Bath (36:52.015)
Yeah, LinkedIn is the best way. I'd love to connect with people in the tech market, candidates or clients. Yeah, reach out to me, connect on LinkedIn. Love to have a chat and see how I can help.
Ben Pearce (37:02.934)
Yeah. And then so for the roles, for example, that you're sort of advertising or filling, do you put them all on LinkedIn? So if people were connected to you, is that how they'd see them? Or do you just pop them wherever they need to go in the boards? So the alerts would be the best way to see the sorts of things that you do.
Bob Bath (37:16.511)
both, but also on our website as well, mextosolutions.com website. We list our jobs on there too.
Ben Pearce (37:23.32)
Okay.
Ben Pearce (37:26.894)
Okay, so people can see stuff there. Well, can I just say Bob, it has been brilliant. I think this is a really important conversation to have. There's lots of tangible little tips there and hopefully a little bit of motivation for those people that have got a full-time job of looking for a full-time job at the moment. So I just want to say thank you so much for taking the time to talk to us today,
Bob Bath (37:47.523)
You're very welcome. It's been a pleasure. It's good to pick all of that. So yeah, thanks for having me. Really appreciate it.
Ben Pearce (37:51.906)
You're welcome. Bye bye.
Bob Bath (37:55.075)
change bike
